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Slovenian officials blame Israeli firm Black Cube for trying to manipulate vote
by cramsession
Recently, there were municipal elections in France, and there was Israeli interference there as well [0] (the article is pay-walled and in French but it's written in the title at least).
[0]: https://www.lecanardenchaine.fr/politique/53391-la-campagne-...
Given the current sentiment towards Israel in most of Europe, manipulating elections might not be the cleverest way to win our sympathy again.
Europeans give too much value to their sympathies. Given that it's now clear to anyone that will open their eyes that there is no international law, Europe ends up looking like an old grandpa yelling at the clouds, powerless to actually do something. Sympathies are not enough.
To many fellow Europeans, the “old grandpa shouting at the clouds” is perceived to be some other entity.
¿Por qué no los dos?
There are an awful lot of old men yelling at clouds in power across the world right now.
Sympathies translate into trade policy, arms embargoes, diplomatic recognition, and votes at international bodies. The idea that soft power is meaningless because it isn't a missile is a contradiction in terms. Europe is Israel's largest trade partner. That's not nothing.
Also, "there is no international law" is a strange argument to make in defense of a country that spends enormous resources lobbying international institutions and running influence ops in allied democracies. If none of it mattered, why bother?
> If none of it mattered, why bother?
Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Republicans and missiles being the best.
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So it sounds like these guys posed as investors, schmoozed politicians, and got them on tape agreeing to do corrupt stuff. The recordings were then released to influence voters.
The thing about this is, the response to it will depend on who the politicians were. For example, if it was the "far right" politicians caught on tape, there wouldn't be the same furore about election interference. The recordings may of course be edited to be misleading.
The videos weren't directly about bribing. They were more about people talking about someone else taking a bribe. Sadly all of the videos were edited, so we don't have full context.
I'm from Slovenia and it is very obvious what is going on behind the scenes. It's a public secret at this point that both the parties in charge (especially the people in/around Gibanje Svoboda) and the various people "from behind" take their cuts at big infrastructure projects.
Just to be fair, this is not unique to the current government. We've had several similar corruption scandals throughout several governments; it was almost always related to infrastructure projects.
A few days prior to this leak there was a separate one posted on Facebook (that I sadly can't find anymore; it has been covered by several media outlets here [1]), in which the former GS secretary reveals who gets what % and that they have to "set our own people to the right places, as (2023) floods cleanup is where the most money flows".
It is also not a secret that the mayor of Ljubljana, Janković, is able to bypass all laws to issue building permits in exchange for a 20% "donation" to city-ran sports clubs, which are ran by his friends. This was revealed in the case of an Austrian investor and his luxury flats at Celovška cesta, Ljubljana, a few months ago.
It's also plain obvious that the state media (RTV SLO) is trying hard to shift the conversation towards the origin of the leaks rather than the supposed corruption revealed in them. The practice had usually been to investigate the content first.
This skips over what the article actually describes. Švarc Pipan's account isn't of politicians getting caught, it's of an entrapment operation. The fake investors "seemed to know nothing about data centers," kept pushing her toward suggesting a bribe, and paid a €500 tab in cash. She says she refused to lobby and told them she was legally barred from doing so at the time.
There is no direct proof that Janša is linked to them, however plausible it seems.
(the parent comment has been edited to remove this claim shortly after I made my comment responding to it)
SOVA has only been able to confirm that an unlabeled Israeli charter landed at Brnik and that a taxi ride with two businessmen was made from the airport to the street in Ljubljana where SDS is headquartered.
This could have also been any two legit businessmen, who might have come with any other flight, for any other purpose. It’s not confirmed whether they entered the SDS building either.
It’s also anachronistic - the videos appear to have been filmed a while ago (given the statements made and the held positions of the people in them), while that flight has only happened a few weeks ago.
Švarc Pipan also didn’t refuse to lobby, she just brushed it off by saying “it’s not lobbying” after bring told it indeed was, right after bragging about lobbying.
She then goes on to explain that she kept arranging things from behind, after resigning from her position because of the Litijska corruption scandal about a year into her turn.
I removed the first half of the comment because I acquired a -2 and felt it was linked to pointing out the article claims they went right to the far right party hq after landing at the airport. I assumed that was because people felt it was unfair to them, and I realized the rest was sufficient for showing the article wasn’t exactly…reflective of the claims made in the comment I was replying to. Didn’t see your reply beforehand. Cheers
The desperation of the state is becoming apparent. Look for more election interference in the future. It will be more sophisticated. And likely can be traced in past elections.
I think it's also true that government officials around the world are less inclined to just go along with it, since Israel has lost control of public perception. So the tactics have to become more brazen and forceful to achieve the same results, increasing the risk of exposure and/or blowback.
I don't think for a minute that this stuff is anything new ... to the contrary. I think what is new is that, every time they step in it, the whole world now quickly knows.
"Black Cube" - wonder what they're going for there. Maybe "Sinister Obelisk" was taken.
Black cube is a common form of symbolism in occult/Kabbalah traditions
As well as Islam (the Kaaba).
The Kaaba was not covered in black until around the 13 century.
They wanted everyone to know they are the bad guys, just like Black Rock.
It works, to be honest - I would never let Beige Rock manage my money.
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Black Rock Black Stone... Maybe even Black Dodecahedron someday
Blackstone is actually a cleverly chosen name after the founders themselves - Steve Schwarzmann and Peter Peterson.
Aligns just well with the world's other top villain entities: BlackStone, BlackRock, BlackWater ...
Anyone registered The Torment Nexus as an LLC yet?
Just more cultural appropriation. Black Cube, Blackrock, Blackstone... And not a black person in sight. Someone even took Blackstreet which was already ours. /s
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> The god El is commonly associated with Saturn and commonly referred to as Saturn El.
This is demonstrably false; see Liber 777 cols. I, II, V, and VII. Saturn is assigned key scale 3 (col I) and is associated with the Name of God "Tetragrammaton Elohim," while "El" is traditionally reserved for the fourth sephira, representing Jupiter.
Six is a solar number, attributed to Christ and Ra (though also Osiris; but see the associated key scale and its myriad attributions). Jupiter, again, is ascribed number three, not six.
Black is indeed the Queen scale color associated to Saturn, though just as commonly attributed to Earth, as the final receptacle of all the other "colors" of creation (see key scales 3 and 10 in cols XV, XVI, XVIII).
Yes, I am an occultist.
https://ia802906.us.archive.org/22/items/Liber777Revised/Lib...
> This is demonstrably false
Only if you consider Crowley to be the alpha and omega.
Wikipedia cites Brill's New Pauly, which I found a copy of online, and that in turn just cites a German article from the early 20th century. I don't read German and have to stop there, but I do have to wonder how well the assertion is actually supported.
Or you could just reference Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity) which claims numerous associations between Saturn and El. Or you could conduct an internet search for Saturn El and find a plethora of additional resources that confirm the association between the two.
Isn't Islam the one with the Black Cube?
Judaism also has important black cubes in the form of tefillin worn by adult male jews during one of their daily prayers on weekdays.
Also NeXT.
And Steve Jobs priced the first Apple computer at - $666.66
The influence of the Kabbalah and the occult sciences on Silicon Valley and the world at large is quite obvious if one is looking and doesn't brush these subjects off as woohoo / conspiratorial (which most people do).
Yes, the kabba is also a nod to Saturn (which is why I said all Abrahamic religions incorporate some Saturn worship into them), and the people walking around the kabba make the rings of Saturn (if you employ some time-lapse photography of them walking around, it's quite obvious). Saturn has a hexagonal shaped storm on its north pole (and the all-seeing eye on its south pole). If you collapse a cube into two dimensions, you get a hexagon.
> rings of Saturn
Not observed until 1610
> Saturn has a hexagonal shaped storm on its north pole
Not observed until 1981/1987
> and the all-seeing eye on its south pole
Not immediately clear when first observed, I'll bet it wasn't until Cassini got there in 2004.
I appreciate the creativity in a new-to-me conspiracy theory, but be a little more careful about the historical record.
Not observed and yet depicted in symbolism by different cultures dating back to Babylon. Quite the mystery indeed... I'm sure you have an explanation for how the Dogon tribe knew more about the Sirius star system than we did until relatively recently as well.
It's quite egotistical and foolish to assume we're more advanced and know more than our ancient ancestors, or that what is written in our history books is objective truth.
In fact, even scholars have suggested that Babylonians could and did observe at least one of Saturn's rings - https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_que...
> I'm sure you have an explanation for how the Dogon tribe knew more about the Sirius star system than we did until relatively recently as well.
I have a hypothesis, which incorporates the fact that the Dogon were not reported to have such knowledge until the 1930s, well after the discovery of Sirius B.
> depicted in symbolism by different cultures dating back to Babylon
A bit of searching is coming up short, beyond a claim about shackles on the ankles of a Roman statue of Saturn (the god) symbolizing the rings; I find this less convincing than the idea that they symbolize shackles (the ones with which he was bound in Tartaros).
> I have a hypothesis, which incorporates the fact that the Dogon were not reported to have such knowledge until the 1930s, well after the discovery of Sirius B.
That's not a fact, because there are several sources / individuals that dispute this claim.
> A bit of searching is coming up short, beyond a claim about shackles on the ankles of a Roman statue of Saturn (the god) symbolizing the rings; I find this less convincing than the idea that they symbolize shackles (the ones with which he was bound in Tartaros).
Well you're pretty terrible at searching the internet then, considering I can type Sumerian saturn symbolism into any image search engine and find a plethora of examples.
Ok, maybe put the hat back on. At least the abrahamic religions hardly knew about the hexagonally shaped storm.
Here are the videos: https://www.anti-corruption2026.com/
They are speaking in English. Only appendices 1-5 are available.
Is this an act of war?
One country, Israel, attempting to change out the government of another?
That's hideous.
Israel has recently invaded Lebanon, started a regional war with Iran, and has been recognized as committing genocide in Gaza.
The UN believes the IDF uses rape as a matter of policy and has published a report with quite a bit of evidence.
Hearing Israel is meddling with elections is like, yeah, if you are doing that other stuff I'm not shocked when you also do this.
It's insane the power and influence Israelis have.
In the US it's blatant, from the insane amounts of money and weaponry sent to Israel (why are american taxpayers subsidizing Israel exactly? It's not like they are neither poor nor US owes them) to the recent events in the middle east.
But even in Europe. Here in Italy the coalition government has multiple high profile politicians that just happen to be shareholders or CEOs of security companies owned by Israelis. And just so it happens that the same security and communication companies get lots of work by the Italian government. And when journalists brought this up because they didn't report it to neither the government nor parliament, nothing happened anyway.
It's a scandal really, but if you write or say it, you're labeled as anti semitic, so criticizing and surfacing this terrible stuff is always controversial.
As a Jewish American, I don't think it's antisemitic. We really shouldn't be sending any money or weapons to Israel or joining them in any wars.
What I do think is a bit antisemitic is the suggestion that Israel is somehow unique here. Russia, China, and the U.S. are all doing this. Heck we just captured Maduro and killed leader of Iran. I just think a country like Russia is way more effective and subtle when it comes to election manipulation, especially in Eastern Europe.
So, if I don't follow your what-about-ism, Im a racist? Thats what you are saying there; We all know that the US, china, Russia, and 99% of the countries in the world are doing this. Why is it racist to pick on the COUNTRY of Israel, which right now is trying its hardest to wipe out entire countries? We know Russia is doing that right now in Ukraine, but that does not eliminate what Israel is doing.
Actually - it's not Israeli influence. It's pro-Israel influence. Important difference. This includes lobby organisations funded or founded by wealthy Jews, conservative Christian lobbyists, pro-arms trade interests, and geopolitical interests (essentially Israel acts as a US military proxy they can use to keep the middle east in check). Not quite Israel secretly pulling strings (which is quite rightly dismissed as traditional boring anti-semetic conspiracy theory wearing a different hat), more of an alignment of interests, which dictator Netenyahu is currently taking advantage of to pursue his own career agenda (complete destruction of Iran and security of Israel from the mindset of a paranoid Israeli nationalist). Naturally, this involves attempting to buy out journalists and promote propaganda - and the Israeli attempts to do this are usually rather inept. What's far more effective is the already existing domestic pro-Israel lobby groups that have a completely above board, and vastly more effective way of funding Israel (and the vastly more powerful US military-financial-geopolitical interests).
Agree with your post. As a Jewish American, I have been advocating that it would be better for Americans and even Jews if we stop sending money to Israel and put political pressure on Israel to abandon illegal settlements, end the war on Gaza and work towards a resolution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Unfortunately, this POV doesn't seem to be widely held by many woth influence.
A 2 state solution is still wildly unpopular amongst Palestinians (both in the West Bank and Gaza), and since 10/7, is now a minority opinion (although still the plurality) amongst Israelis[1].
They also did try as recently as 2009, not that you'd have heard about it[2].
Also, the aid money the USA sends to Israel doesn't disappear into nothing any more than NASA's funding does. American aid to Israel (and to most places in the world) hinges on the condition that they only use that money to buy from American companies.
[2]: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articl...
NASA is exploring space, our money to Israel encourages US participation in genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and global war. I'm in the US and support a single state solution: Palestine. I think most people under the age of 45 are in agreement.
Illegal settlements are mostly pushed by radical jews from US. Israel does not really have money and people resources, for this endless war.
Do you have any sources for this? I know a lot of Jews in the U.S. support Israel, but not sure why they would care about settlements if they don't live there.
And if what you say is true, why is Netanyahu still in power?
That said I don't think your point undermines my suggestion that the U.S. should get out of the business of funding Israel and joining it in any wars over there.
Have you seen how much Qatar spends, and how directly they influence US universites in terms of pro-Hamas/anti-Israel sympathies?
> dictator Netenyahu
No. He's not, go look it up and come back here.
"Sovereign is he who decides on the exception" - Carl Schmitt.
Always different rules for Israel vs. any other "normal country", and that in itself tells you all you need to know
Indeed. Israel is the only country that can get the majority of UN condemnations for merely existing.
The UN is irrelevant, when it comes down to it Israel has had the support of the most powerful country in the world (the US) for the last half century, despite doing basically nothing that's been in US strategic interests.
That's at a cold hearted strategic level, not even mentioning the war crimes, genocide and general moral bankruptcy
That's because its existence is predicated on the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians. It was literally formed via the Nakba, a brutal crime against humanity and it's been maintained through terrorism and now genocide. What's the point of the UN existing if it doesn't at least condemn these actions?
Yep, UN sanctions deployed on Israel for invading other countries are much worse that when Russia invaded other countries (sarcasm). UN really tried to set an example here.
> why are american taxpayers subsidizing Israel exactly?
The same reason USA is subsidizing half the middle eastern countries - its a strategic location near extremely important transit routes, near important resources, and right between major powers so the region doesn't squarely fall in any major power's sphere of influence and thus up to be influenced.
I dont know why all these conspiracy theories think the usa<->israel relationship is so strange, but dont blink at the relationship usa has with egypt, uae, saudi arabia, bharain, etc.
We primarily fund the other Middle Eastern countries to keep Israel safe. Were it not for Israel, we would just have normal diplomatic relations with them.
I wouldn't go that far. The U.S. and other European powers have a long history of involvement in Middle East politics. Significant parts of the Middle East were once parts of various European empires. Many of them gained their independence only to find there were still a lot of strings and (pipe)lines of exploitation attached.
The U.S. did more than its fair share to glom onto those lines of exploitation and keep them alive at the expense of locals. e.g. Iran is what it is today because of U.S. oil interests. The CIA installed an authoritarian Shah when Iran's (at the time) democratic government started taking control of its own oil industry (American oil companies would have had to start paying taxes). Rule under the Shah was "unpleasant" for Iranians and revolution was the direct response. Hence, theocracy.
Israel is a special case in the Middle East. The zionist movement gained state sponsors and convinced European powers (and the U.S.) to pour money in instead of sucking it out. How they did that is a question that stretches back well into the 19th century. I'd argue that a lot of it was the result of people who had their hearts in the right places. Things just went sideways when it came to Israelis and Palestinians co-existing peacefully. At least some of the idealists of the early zionist movement honestly believed the influx of Jewish people would be a benefit to Arabs already living in Palestine.
> Things just went sideways when it came to Israelis and Palestinians co-existing peacefully. At least some of the idealists of the early zionist movement honestly believed the influx of Jewish people would be a benefit to Arabs already living in Palestine.
Teodore Hertzl (Zionism’s founder) was explicit about the need to ethically cleanse the Palestinians from their land.
Herzl, nor Hertzl. Do you have a citation or resource for this?
(I ask not because it's inconceivable, but because Herzl died almost half a century before Israel declared its independence. Ze'ev Jabotinsky is more consistently identified with revisionist Zionism/territorial maximalism.)
> "We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back."
https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quot...
Thanks. This demonstrates a world view that I don’t agree with, but it doesn’t really read to me like a justification of ethnic cleansing. The mention of removal is of poor people, and it doesn’t mention Palestine at all.
This is in marked contrast to Jabotinsky, who says these things explicitly[1]:
> Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important to build, it is important to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonialization.
And:
> We cannot offer any adequate compensation to the Palestinian Arabs in return for Palestine. And therefore, there is no likelihood of any voluntary agreement being reached
This isn’t to somehow excuse Herzl; he’s still an essentially colonial thinker. But from what I can tell he never thought deeply about the political mechanics of Israel/Palestine itself, in part because of European colonial assumptions around a lack of Palestinian connection to the land.
(Or in other words: Jabotinsky’s “innovation” is realizing that the Palestinians are a people with real attachments, not just realtors. It’s from there that he concludes, decades later, that displacement is the only workable strategy. He is, needless to say, also wrong.)
Edit: or another framing is that Herzl was too racist and provincializing in his limited view of Arabs/Palestinians to see where his movement would go.
> Teodore Hertzl (Zionism’s founder) was explicit about the need to ethically cleanse the Palestinians from their land.
Palestinians didn't exist when The Jewish State was released and Herzl specifically talked about making arabs rich, not dead.
Israel controls no strategic resources, unlike the other allies the USA has in the Middle East.
Your comment completely ignores the long history Israel has of rigging the US elections by funding their pet congressmen.
> Israel controls no strategic resources
Israel is, to use a Pacific-theatre term, our unsinkable aircraft carrier. A better Pakistan.
> long history Israel has of rigging the US elections by funding their pet congressmen
Americans were, until recently, pro Israel. The funding worked because amplifying anti-Israeli sentiments among electeds lost them votes. Now that that balance of perceptions has shifted, the effect has as well. And note that pro-Israel != Israel; lots of America pro-Israeli influence is entirely homegrown.
You can look at the FARA website, Israel barely spends money on lobbying. Hungary spent more last year than Israel did. They simply don't need to.
Same in Spain with prominent figures of the right. Diaz Ayuso the president of the Madrid autonomic region and a very powerful figure in the right party, has been particularly combative for months to refuse to see a genocide in Gaza, or tried to justify it with nail and teeth. Then her connection with some Israel millionaires was disclosed, and now she is suddenly very quiet about the theme. Not more party invitations, it seems.
My guess is, after 1900+ years of being treated a certain way, and within a human lifetime of an industrialized attempt of extermination, they don't particularly care about scruples.
As a Jew and I don't think that is true at all and feel it is a bit of a dangerous characterization. Jews have just as much scruples as any other groups.
What I do think is true is that Jews have more fear of others based on past treatment and even a lot of current rhetoric and may justify actions as necessary for safety.
We do also happen to be a very small group of people. For instance, Palestinians have 1 billion Muslims supporting them.
That said, I happen to think that these unscrupulous policies will actually cause more harm than good.
I didn't mean to make a blanket statement, my apologies.
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Do distinguish between Zionist / Jewish supremacist types from someone who is just Jewish.
I don't like Israel's policies towards Palestine but know many Jewish people who feel the same as me. Heck, I know Israelis who thinks the same as me.
Ultimately, this is a self-destructive approach. If Israel loses support of the West, what will they have left? Nuclear saber-rattling?
>Nuclear saber-rattling
samson option
The samson option, by definition, also leads to israel’s destruction.
Or maybe 1900+ years of acting a certain way?
And what's that way?
Come on it only has happened more than 100 times, clearly it's the fault of everbody else.
The tapes show prominent Slovenian figures apparently discussing corruption, illegal lobbying and the misuse of state funds. Is there any evidence that the tape is fraudulent? The article doesn't provide any. I wonder if anybody even read the article other than words "Israeli firm" and jumped to a lynching
Giora Eiland is the architect of "General's Plan". If anything, this scumbag criminal should have been locked up the moment he touched down in Ljubljana with his "company".
"The plan, conceived by retired major general and former head of the National Security Council Giora Eiland and presented to the Knesset by a group of several retired Israeli generals, proposed giving approximately 300,000 Palestinians a one-week evacuation period to depart from the northern third of Gaza before designating it a military exclusion zone. Under this strategy, anyone remaining in the area would be considered a combatant. The plan would then implement a complete siege that would block essential supplies until militant surrender, denying all essential supplies including medicine, fuel, food, and water"
and Russia is now doing the same in Hungary... :(
Russia has no resorces to do that, no matter how many times you retell the myth about "troll factories", "Russia did Brexit" and all the other lies / half truths which US, UK, Israel and other western states told and continue to tell to divert the attention from the enormous scale of their propaganda industry.
It's the ONLY thing that Russia has the resources to do. Apart from fighting their smaller neighbour to a standstill.
This is the most disconnected-from-reality comment that I have read on this website, ever?
???
it's a FACT that they do this.
"Then operatives from a notable private intelligence company, founded by former members of the Israel Defense Forces,"
Every time it's another israeli scumbag spying and subverting.
It is a complete lack of respect for any shred of humanity which hurts society the most.
Interesting. I have vey limited knowledge of Slovenian politics, but it often seems that whoever gets elected ends up facing corruption charges and ends up in prison after the next election cycle.
Since Janez Jansa will be prime minister he will be charged for corruption by end of his term and this could be the third time for him to go to prison (the first instance happened under the socialist regime, so maybe that does not count).
Anyway, I do not think Israelis needed to work hard here to find some dirt.
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There was no rigging or any manipulation of votes. Current and previous government officials were caught bragging about their previous corrupt adventures. The government after some initial shock came up with a story about foreign intervention. Slovenian newspapers and journalist activist carried it all the way to Brussels in order bank on negative emotions about Israel and hopped people will think about that. There was no institutional response, because the current government has cleaned institutions of people not loyal to them. It's a rather sad situation. The society is deeply divided. When similar thing happened in Belgium, the corrupt people were immediately punished and nobody cared who exposed them.
Yes, pretty much. It's much more obvious if you take into account the Počivalšek leaks before the previous elections and compare the media response to this time.
Thing is, the ones "exposing" them are already known as corrupt from multiple previous scandals, now all they did was get some people on camera which say that the other side is also corrupt. While none of this is good, I'd still vote for the ones supposedly somewhat corrupt instead of those known to be fully corrupt.
So is the allegation that this private intelligence firm tried to induce members of the government party to offer a bribe. They then published the recorded conversations.
I guess what is missing from the article is was the videos misleading or did they really get offered the bribe? Because if its the latter, its kind of hard to feel sympathy for a corrupt official getting caught even if the mechanism was problematic.
The videos weren't directly about bribing. They were more about people talking about someone else taking a bribe. Sadly all of the videos were edited, so we don't have full context.
A bribe in a low trust society is not the same as a bribe in a high trust society.
In this context, a bribe is irrelevant compared to the act of election interference by a foreign actor.
Appearently not to the electors or this scheme wouldn't have worked.
It isn't corruption or the exposure of corruption that is the crime to European elites. The crime is doing something that will cause voters to choose something that they do not want the voters to choose.
If you are corrupt, and that corruption helps the opposition, you are accused of election manipulation. If you expose corruption, and that exposure helps the opposition, you are accused of election manipulation.
Meanwhile, the US is pouring billions of dollars into their elections, and if questioned, the questioning is considered an authoritarian encroachment on human rights. The US can make their officials into unpersons with sanctions for doing their jobs with integrity, and they'll just go along with it, tsk-tsking at the official in question.
Too bad for Golob, though - since it's Israel doing it for Israeli reasons, the "left-liberals" won't be able to get any of their usual support to attack them, because it's Israelis all the way down now. Ukraine is old news and competing with Israel for weapons, so there's no need for NATO-lackey Golob anymore.
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I want to talk about Ticketmaster.
People hate Ticketmaster. For good reason. TM throws on all these fees, clearly engages in third-party selling, makings buying difficult and jacks up prices. All of this is known. But what's less known is that artists, especially big artists, like Ticketmaster. Why? Because TM is a sacrificial anode. It takes all the hate but adding junk fees that in part go to the artist. The artist can say they're selling seats from as low as $20 in press releases while the least they will get for a seat is $30 because of all the fees.
Being hated is a service you can sell because it takes away attention from what you're doing. You get to blame this third-party but you're still absolutely complicit in everything they're doing. You see where this is going?
Israel is America's Ticketmaster. Anything bad that Israel or an Israeli firm does, the US could end today with a phone call by simply saying "we're cutting off aid if you don't stop doing". The price of this is to be the sacrificial anode for what is actually American foreign policy. There are well-funded and organized efforts to whitewash Israel's reputation and those were successful up until the last few years.
Israel is a huge supplier of spyware eg Pegasus [1]. Despotic regimes use this to spy on journalists and opposition figures and has likely been used to locate and kill them. You think we couldn't stop that? Of course we can. But we like that because, again, Israel takes the heat.
So Israel interfering in Slovenia's elections is the least surprising thing I've heard. I'd be surprised if it wasn't true. You will find Israeli influence in probably every election.
I agree with everything you said except that the US is able to stop it. Think about it: Wouldn't Israel simply use these same tools in the US to install a puppet president they can easily manipulate?
Can we even prove it hasn't already happened?
there was some talk some weeks ago about some emails being released that implicated a lot of politicians and business leaders...but I can't really remember so much has happened since then!
Your broader point is true but the characterization of Israel as an extension of America is not.
Israel is happy to be the sacrificial anode for more or less anyone willing to pay and not immediately counter to Israel's own geopolitical interests. This is a service they offer to the world, not just America.
America simply happens to be the largest customer among many.
> This is a service they offer to the world, not just America.
It's a service that they offer first and foremost to themselves and against anyone else, including America.
Who would be the Terry A. Davis of Israel-as-Ticketmaster?
Yeah, I’ve come to the same realization. Israel does the dirty work for the US and they take all the heat. If the U.S. really wanted Israel to stop, all they need to do is take out special privileges Israel gets and put down economic sanctions.
> If the U.S. really wanted Israel to stop
But could they? You are somehow assuming that all this "dirty work" as you call it is only done on behalf of others and not used to ensure continued ("unwavering") support for themselves.
As the Qatari emir said in the wake of the recent Middle Eastern conflict, it's clear who's running the show geopolitically. Cui bono?
All of this might be true if Israel didn't have undue influence over the American officials who are authorized to pick up that phone. But they do, and so the phone doesn't get picked up.
Also, if your parable about Ticketmaster were true. But it isn't. Most artists do indeed dislike them; the paltry kickback isn't worth the... bad blood... it sends their way. And it's weird that your read is that most artists secretly hold their fans in contempt. I don't know what kind of person just assumes that of others, except that they're that way themselves, maybe.
I’m not a fan of comparing a cruel, genocidal government to a site that jacks up the prices on concert tickets, personally.
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Joel Zamel, an Israeli intelligence veteran, led the Israeli intel company Psy-Group, which worked closely with Netanyahu and the Trump campaign circle, including Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner.
Psy-Group partnered with Cambridge Analytica (later Emerdata) to influence the 2016 US elections using social media data.
The Black Cube intel firm, staffed by former Mossad agents, was employed by Cambridge Analytica, which was involved in harvesting Facebook data.
Harvey Weinstein Hired ex-Mossad Agents to Track Women Accusing Him of Sexual Assault
Weinstein hired Israeli firm Black Cube to research his accusers and to scuttle reports of his sexual abuse
Black Cube operatives posed as activists, abuse victims and sources for journalists
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-11-07/ty-article/report...
I wonder when people will stop being scared to speak out. Is it once they lose their job due to stolen data? Is it once Palantir decides they are a threat and they lose their freedom? Is it once they lose their own land? Is it after starting the 10th war?
NoKings is this weekend, millions are speaking out together
A lose of time and rage.
NoKings starting a new political party around the movement, or explaining how to do it to people, so youngsters can fire the GOP for good... that would change the game. THAT would send the clear message that politicians will hear with fear.
But marching, not, It will not change anything. Is just distracting the frog in the bath for a little more, while the slow cooking coup continues. Unless the politicians think that they personally have something to lose, they will not care.
Yes. The problem is, it is only this weekend.
1. It's the first of the year, there will be more NoKings
2. There are many more protest besides NoKings
3. Direct Action is better than no action. We only vote once every 1/2/4 years. This helps get people moving, to take their first steps. Case in point, this year I am printing whistles and information
Lol. These NoKings protests are so incredibly pathetic and ineffective. These bunch of airheads standing on the side of a road or bridge with close to non-existent foot traffic so there is not the smallest possibility of them inconveniencing anyone.
What are they even expecting their so called protests to achieve anyway. These people have absolutely no goals or plans to have any. Guess it's a way for them to have an roadside party instead of whinging about politics online lol.
What do you suggest instead?
You’ll get crickets.
These people don’t want a state of citizens, they want a kingdom of serfs because they think they’ll make it into tiny aristo élite.
Actual disruptive protests that have actual goals.
Having a roadside party with signs and calling it a protest is just pathetic, ineffective, and embarrassing. These people simply are not serious people.
How do you square your opinion with multiple NoKings days at the top of the list of largest protests in US history? Perhaps that there are mini demonstrations (as you have described) every day is a sign that the frustration is more persistent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_and_demonstra...
The size of these “protests” compared to their complete lack of results proves my point.
Protests don't create results, they raise awareness to move people's minds.
At the risk of stating the obvious, Black Cube is an actual private intelligence firm that sells spy services [1], while Palantir is a software firm that sells software (even if that software is used by intelligence, gov, etc). You can go spin up a free Foundry instance [2] and test it, and it doesn't have secret buttons to imprison people.
From Black Cube's website:
Our Code of Ethics was developed together with Prof. Asa Kasher, an internationally acclaimed scholar specialising in philosophy and ethics, who wrote the Code of Ethics for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF).
From Wikipedia on Prof. Kasher:
Kasher states explicitly that it is justified to kill a Palestinian child who is in the company of a hundred 'terrorists', because the 'terrorists' might kill children in Sderot. But in reality, it was a case of killing a hundred children who were in the company of one 'terrorist'." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asa_Kasher
Ethics code. Got it.
Yes, they are master hackers - they even hacked the scrollbar on their web page.
And yet both these technologies are being used to subvert democracy and suppress opposition… almost like it doesn’t need to be fully automated fascism to be fascistic.
Kind of them to put the evil right in the name.
Alternate source due to paywall: https://www.politico.eu/article/black-cube-leak-tape-corrupt...
"The SDS says the recordings — which feature a former minister, a top lawyer and other prominent figures — are proof of corruption at the highest levels of Slovenian society; while Golob’s supporters say the scandal is evidence that Janša is collaborating with foreign entities to retake power."
Sounds like they're all just different brands of scum.
First let me say that any corruption admitted to in those recordings should be prosecuted immediately, no question about it.
But really, the admissions were really nothing much, I'm actually surprised that's all they got. The former minister was forced to resign under allegations of corruption and was/is under investigation for it, no big surprise. And the talk about having access to Ljubljana's mayor (and that he is "for sale") - well that's been in the news for years, he's under several open investigations and many more were already closed (he always comes out victorious - either because he's innocent and it's all just hearsay, or more likely because he's extremely good at dodging liability and covering his tracks). The rest is just people who used to have some power trying to appear like they still have in order to impress a potential employer or get a business deal (that was the agents' cover).
Again, I hope the authorities are combing the tapes for evidence, but it really wasn't anything bombastic. That the Israelis were doing this on the other hand...
Yeah, what studiously seems to be absent is a denial of the contents of the recording. Kind of as if Nixon's Watergate burglars had found damning evidence of Democratic shenanigans- just a melee between dirty handed criminals all around.
If I had a choice in my country, and all else being equal, I would prefer the scum not supporting either Israel or Russia
Quick question: Could they also be manipulating this message board's voting?
If they could get people to install a mobile UI app that fetches instructions on what to up/down-vote, what to flag/vouch then they could and unlikely anyone would notice.
It is unlikely that enough people would check their up/down vote history, vouch and flag history and even then some would assume they fat-fingered such things.
Such a UI could also save and upload username and password to another site. Some people use the same creds on multiple sites.
Exactly such an app exists.
I take it as obvious, that all message boards are swarmed with bots of different actors, might it be China, Russia, US, Israel, Turkey
I just assume nothing is unmanipulated anymore.
Companies, trolls, states etc have it way to easy now
Online community spam/brigading has been a normal occurrence since I've been running a message board 15 years ago. At least in Europe.
Seeing a sudden flood of new messages from low use accounts around elections or referendums is normal these days.
I think a larger question to ask is if could they also be manipulating the people themselves who are reading these message boards prior to this post which later impacts such message board's voting.
assume this is the case on every platform
Lol. If Israel could manipulate HN do you think so many anti-Israel posts would appear on the front page, and each mitigating or nuanced comment about Israel would be flagged so quickly? No, Israel does not control or manipulate HN.
Vast majority of post critical of Israel get flagged as soon as they get enough traction
Practically everything of political attention gets flagged, even if it is tech related.
There may well be a pro-Israel brigade going out of their way to move that along, but there is an equally rapid anti-Israel brigade. Nothing remains on the front page for long.
I saw many new accounts doing brazen propaganda.
Maybe there are lots more articles posted on HN criticising Israel, and only a fraction remains, because they win the up- and downvote war?
Not a single pro-Israel article, nor even any article that even mentions Israel neutrally, has ever reached the front page of HN in the entire history of HN.
So, no. Israel is not "winning the up- and downvote war" of HN.
Why should people post positive articles about Israel when it‘s accused of genocide, its leaders have arrest warrants from international criminal court, when it introduces death penalty for Palestinians only, when its settler terrorise Palestinians in the West Bank, when it starts a war with all its neighbours, and on and on.
The accusation is that Israel manipulates HN results. I responded that they do not because if they had been, there would surely be even one single positive article about Israel in the entire two decades of Hacker News' existence. There is not.
Do please try to keep up.
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Politics are indiscriminately flagged. People don't come to HN to read politics.
This is simply not true, this very submission sits comfortably on the front page, so does
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47522709
and
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47518281
and
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47523106
and
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47523169
Unless of course you mean "politics" as in everything you don't like is "politics".
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It seems to me that interfering in a foreign election should be understood to be grounds for war.
> interfering in a foreign election should be understood to be grounds for war
Requires a rigorous definition of interference.
The allegations here—trying to catch politicians on tape being sleazy and then releasing them with sketchy editing-doesn’t seem to rise to the level of calling for a kinetic response.
Russia and China are definitely interfering in the US (to spread discord, ex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_interference_in_the_20...), so should the US formally declare war against them?
What I do think is that nations should 1) interfere back, and 2) make their citizens more resilient to foreign propaganda. And I specifically don't mean building a firewall. In fact do the opposite: if a firewalled nation is leaking out propaganda, ensure firewall-breaking tools leak in.
No idea why this is being downvoted. It seems only en-vogue on HN voice outrage about Israel.
Yes, and the EU, due to this fragmentation, seems to be a fertile playground for all this unacceptable interference by foreign powers.
Actually, no. The decentralization of power means that it takes a lot more effort to subvert each country individually, rather than propping up a few candidates for the entire region like they do in the US.
They only need one country for veto rights.
The EU is perfectly capable of collaborating even when it can't reach full consensus or when it wants to include peripheral states without them becoming full members. See for example the Schengen area, Eurozone, European Economic Area, and more recently (and specifically to circumvent member state vetos) when the enhanced cooperation procedures were invoked to lend money to Ukraine.
Exactly, see what is happening in Hungary.
Controlling Hungary is enough to veto some support for Ukraine.
No because any attempt at interference would in that case trigger article 5 of NATO.
That’s true but that fragmentation is also what limits the propagation of fractures. You can see it like sandboxing.
A deal with foreign intelligence is a dead with the devil that comes with a lifetime of subservience. And subservience to foreign powers is a greater evil than yo usual internal corruption. At least the locally corrupt in a democracy have some interest in things going somewhat well in their country. The foreign actors only care about theirs.
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If this were really taken seriously there would be much more war.
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Always baffles me why some people think and act like being proud of their state/country/race and criticizing its actions are mutually exclusive.
Because its actions are exclusively critiquable and little to commiserate.
Tell my fellow Americans this too.
I'm quite convinced that Israelis have an edge in communication and socials.
And god forbid how easily you're labeled as anti semitic for bringing up facts about Israeli spying and lobbying in the west.
Hell, in Italy, neo nazi hooligans go protest for Israel with hundreds of police defending them.
Whereas genuine pro Palestinian protests (99 times out of 100 peaceful) met nothing but batons and condemnation.
Even the tv narratives about these events is disgusting.
It's clear the Israelis know how to do their job.
> Doesn't matter, half of HN will still defend them.
And I would say half can't/won't speak about this. I try to stray away from these discussions sometimes because I feel worried that someone is going to take any comment out of context within these messages which is a bit of a strange way of self censorship actually and I feel like I might not be the only one. It's also worth mentioning that I have found this to be the case especially for Israel.
For example, I feel valid criticizing the current American Regime and Americans themselves would agree with me at a a much higher proportion/magnitude compared to Israel in which from my small sample bias of online acquaintances, I only had one Jewish (Living in America, not Israeli) person agree that Israel is doing some pretty horrendous things and although do take this with a grain of salt as something they told me but they said that Zionism and Antisemitism are effectively something comparable as within the Jewish religion, There is an idea of the world hating the Jews as being a pre-condition within Jewish religion for them to win within the end-times theology of the jewish faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog I think they were referencing this: Zechariah 14:2 states, "I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it." The idea is that the Jewish people will have no earthly allies left.
> There is an idea of the world hating the Jews as being a pre-condition within Jewish religion for them to win within the end-times theology of the jewish faith.
Just so we're clear, this is religious fundamentalism.
This site definitely has a cohort of completely unhinged war mongers. The same names (and a bunch of random new accounts) never fail to show up to defend genocide or any other atrocities being committed.
This board sure attracts hordes of alt right apologists and anarcho capitalists.
And in general a huge lack of empathy and obsession with power and money.
I guess it's normal given the coupling to the #1 VC incubator of the #1 country that obsesses over power and money.
You either find some of the most humble, down to earth, open source contributing people who value human life in it of itself within this forum who share as much knowledge/try to do good for the world, or you find people as you mention who completely disregard the previous ideals. There isn't much in-between.
I do think that there is some utilitarian aspect to it. Some people might genuinely believe that the losses to human livelihoods/human lives because of AI (yes even with these AI drones now with the deal @OpenAI), the end reality would still make everything worth it and within this distorted view of the future, they believe that everything happening in present is alright for the future and that itself can be used to propose some disgusting idea like eugenics which people might become okay with, as such.
And its very easy to switch somewhere within the past of a person being the former to the latter through the ladder steps of altruism to transhumanism to essentially the things we hear from AI hypebros. All the while, a benefit is that especially right now, selling AI sells for profit right now whereas people can question about the morality later/justify it through these distorted lenses that I mentioned.
Worth a watch, Can't recommend this video enough,
AI is a Eugenics Project : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SSxfa3da58
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Is it anti-semitism or anti-Israel sentiment?
Because if it's the latter, well, have you taken a look at their behavior recently? Their ethnicity/religion has nothing to do with why people condemn the state.
This exactly. Expressing a view that the Israeli government is causing massive harm to the world right now is not a view on an ethnic or religious group. There is a difference, but I have been noticing a strong attempt to try to link the two.
It is the shield behind which these war criminals hide, not caring that their behavior is causing an actual surge in antisemitism.
Yes it is. Arabs started a war in 1967 and lost some land. Germany started a war in 1939 and lost some land. Nobody on HN is demanding France and Poland return to their 1944 borders.
Likewise Germany lost more people than Britain. But HN isn't demanding that Britain stop because Britain is better at defending itself.
HN clearly doesn't like Israel, but they don't do it because of Israel's behavior because they don't hate other countries when the same thing happens. Just the 80% Jewish one.
Has Germany been bombing its neighbors lately?
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Indeed. But as you might notice, WW2 is almost a century ago at this point. Were they to do it in the present day, they would have to face present day criticism.
However, they don't do that anymore, which makes your whole attempt at false equivalency rather hollow.
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1945 and 2026 are though.
The reasons people dislike Israel today is because of their actions over the past few years.
But you know that, you just seek to distort and twist. It is not a conversation for you, it is an opportunity for hateful propaganda.
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I don't think Ukrainian will appreciate your logic.
Ukraine didn't start a war.
Palestinian didn't start the war either. Read the Balfour Declaration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
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You think defending foreign influence by Israeli's in European politics is tantamount to defending against antisemitism?
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I think you forgot to put the /s at the end there.
The truth is the truth, whether or not it might align with a narrative or stereotype.
For example: NSA wiretapping was a truth that happened to align with pre-existing conspiracy theory narratives. It was easy to dismiss it as a crackpot theory, but that didn’t make the truth any less (or more) true.
If someone says “if you believe this might be true, you’re [a bad person]”, I would consider this person fundamentally against truth, and someone more interested in shaping narratives than upholding accuracy and integrity.
With so many conspiracy theories becoming truth and so much news proving to be lies over time, I now have more trust in something labeled as a conspiracy theory than in official news.
>...I now have more trust in something labeled as a conspiracy theory than in official news.
I think that is the goal. Destroy trust in formerly trustworthy sources so that the reality you see every day more closely aligns with one of the many conspiracy options.
Well, that's the conspiracy. Both in theory and practice. People conspire all the time, even those claiming they don't. If something is a conspiracy, doesn't mean it's not true. Or false.
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> Hitler was right about jews? Anti semitism actually has grounds? Asking purely out of curiosity.
WTF? We've banned this account.
Threads related to Israel already fill with the worst violations of the site guidelines that we see (and yes, these come from all sides). There's so much that we can't even moderate it all. But outright anti-semitic trolling is its own category of hell.
If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
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Something with stars and stripes?
Too many
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> lot of people were called crazy or worse for believing it might be possible
Sorry, when were questions about Slovenia’s voting system considered crazy?
Who would say that? Elections are rigged all the time.
I skimmed and nowhere did it say it was "impossible to rig an election". Please quote verbatim don't just drop links.
Mueller correctly stated there was an orchestrated disinformation campaign by Russia. That's different than Russians under voting tables stuffing ballots in their pockets. some like to conflate the two so that they can call it all the 'russia hoax'
Conflict of interests. We were told these things by the very same people who have an interest to rigging an election :-)
at some point, this problem boils down to something like trusting trust and I think that the answer might be similar to how stage0 in compilers work in that smaller stages which can be easily audited combine/compile together to form larger stages. (Not sure if this allegory fits at the moment but I do feel like decentralization can definitely help in these cases which is my point but these same people who told that it wasn't possible aren't looking for/actively hindering any prospects of decentralization due to once again, conflict of interests)
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DNC emails weren't fake either but dumping them all right before the election was certainly intended to be election interference.
And when WaPo released Trump's "grab em by the pussy" tape October 2016? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Access_Hollywood_...)
Even if our politicians are so corrupt that every one has skeletons in their closet, I don't think releasing factual evidence of malfeasance is a type of election interference that should be condemned.
there are examples of files and tapes which veracity isn't in question in a much bigger and more important country than Slovenia regarding much more important people than the Slovenian prime minister and... it doesn't matter much, apparently
The candidate who stands to benefit from circumstances like this is usually quite corrupt as well. The mere appearance of a foreign espionage outfit helping one candidate should raise questions about their integrity.
Sausage is made by all parties. If you show how one party makes its sausage, and only that party, that is a smear campaign a foreign power must not assist in. Same as donating to one party, it is interfering with electuons
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I don't think that's the case. There are five people in my office including myself. Three of them are Jewish. None of them ever have anything positive to say about Israel. The three Jewish people in my office certainly don't hate Jews.
>> It's amazing to see the amount of hate towards Israel here. I guess part of it it's just plain old Jew hate in new cover
Hahaha. They're trying to influence European elections. You don't need to have any opinion about Jews to be upset about that.
A third of Jews in NYC voted for an anti-Zionist Muslim mayor, which equates to roughly half the population of Tel Aviv according to demographic statistics. I advise you discuss "Jew hate" with them before you start attacking everyone else for racism.
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Thanks
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At this point its extremely clear and important to understand
It doesnt matter how men, bodies / hours / time / millions and billions you spend building a defensive
They will infiltrate with less than 500k
And come out on top
100% of the time
This is a fundamental human problem that needs fixing across the entire planet
It does not matter what country or secret groups are involved or how much life or death is truly at stake
There is a 100000% chance some dumbass is willing to fuck if all up for a small bribe
We should have some benchmark project that bluntly describes the issues with each democracy. Like, did elected officials dramatically change in appearance (length, ears, nose, teeth, chin, eyes), election agenda points that don't match execution, issues with method of voting, issues with vote counting etc
Already downvoted to hell. Will leave frontpage in 5-10 mins with 273 points in 1 hour. Shame.
Why are they like this... There are elite cultures that just live and don't bother anyone. Israel isn't one of them.
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Isn't that more the U.S. evangelical view of Christianity?
(Although obviously there are of course Jewish thinkers who believe in ethnic superiority, but many also reject it.)
Israel really needs to stop interfering in other countries' elections. That's not acceptable. We don't interfere when their population votes for warcriminals either.
So many countries (Russia is reported to be helping Orban, for example) meddle in other countries' affairs, even when it doesn't affect them at all, directly or indirectly. These days a lot of damage can be done online (propaganda, riling people up, fake news etc) for very little money - how does one even begin to counter this? Especially if you are a small country/poor with limited resources
Is “we” referring to the United States?
Sheldon Adelson's backing helped Netanyahu a lot, and not just by funding the free Israel Hayom newspaper (which generally assumes a right-wing, pro-Netanyahu editorial stance).
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This isn't Israel the state, it's a private company that's based in Israel.
If you think for a second that the Israeli state allows this company to sell its services to anyone who is opposed to their interests, you really don't understand how defense companies and states work.
Sure, a private company that just happens to have had multiple former Mossad directors on their board.
Coincidences are funny sometimes :-)
That's like saying that Raytheon doesn't advance US interests in the world
gee I wonder what does the private company gain from defaming another country's "pro-Palestine" party.
...money?
My point is a simple one: the company was hired by someone. Was it the opposition party? To say this is entirely Israel's doing implies the Slovenian party that benefits just happens to have gotten lucky. The reality is likely considerably murkier than that.
Any company that sells this type of services exists as an extension of its parent state. Any contract it offers, especially to a political entity in another state, will be scrutinized by state authorities and allowed by them or not. Sometimes, those contracts will be forced on the company based on state-level negotiations.
Noone is saying that the party that contracted this company (if indeed it was a Slovenian party and not the Israeli state itself) for this service doesn't carry blame. But both the company itself and the state of Israel carry just as much blame for offering, permitting, and carrying out such services.
By your logic, if someone were to found a legal private paid assassin company in France, and then the opposition party in Germany hired this company to assassinate the German chancellor, you'd say that it's unfair for Germany to blame France for this.
Would Black Cube have accepted a client that was very pro-Palestinian and was trying to lure voters away from the pro-Israel party?
And to say it's not Israel's doing implies that Israel just happens to have gotten lucky.
To say that this is entirely the Slovenian party's fault implies that Israel cannot govern their own state. Both are complicit.
> implies that Israel cannot govern their own state
Or more simply that what the Israeli company did, is not illegal in Israel.
I can guarantee you that it is very illegal if you target the wrong government.
Selective prosecution is a recurring issue under Israeli jurisprudence.
Okay, sure. Is Slovenia the wrong government?
NED is not a CIA front sweatie, it's just a private institute
>NED is not a CIA front sweatie
Curious: can you show the research steps you took to reach this conclusion? Really curious how we can all easily determine which companies are and aren't CIA fronts!
Oh thats adorable
Israel has created a whole industry around "politics" as a service. Between rampant spying in multiple countries using Predator etc and slimy campaings like this, you can buy governments for an increasingly affordable price.
It might be cheaper than we think.
I'm SO surprised more people don't know about this... I'm always dismissed when I say the elections are rigged.
I once made a list of various issues raised in various elections in various countries. The instances describe a whole spectrum of cheating. The only consistent factor is that no one believes there was cheating. The funniest was an order to change punchcards that made the holes not line up. People still found room to not see a problem with it.
Israel under Netanyahu is part of the international antidemocratic axis of imperialist autocracy.
Other members, in no particular order:
Orban, Trump, Putin, Babis, Thiel, Bolsonaro, Ellison, Milei, Nawrocki.
These gentlemen (and of course they're all men) constitute the 21st century axis of evil, responsible for most of the backsliding and worsening of rule of law around the world.
Hey now, there’s a few axis girlbosses out there! Don’t forget Sana’s skin in the game.
Not Meloni, then?
This list might be non-exhaustive. Good point on Meloni, she's a bit of a special case. Turns out women can be evil, too!
Was there any doubt of that after Maxwell, Noem, Bondi? (Or, keeping with the same theme, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irma_Grese)
Nawrocki is just incompetent (and to be fair that was his selling point for PiS). Now - Kaczynski, that's where true evil lies
Milei though? His social views, eccentric behavior, and seeing other right wing leaders as kindred spirits is unfortunate.
However, practically and policy-wise, what has he done that's antidemocratic or imperialist? He's repeatedly democratically elected, as part of the people's mandate to fix their economy, and despite leftwing hang-wringing it'll never work, all data seems to point to their economy getting better.
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This instance is a kindergarten if you compare Victor Orban doing phone calls during EU sessions from toilet to report secrets to Russia.
so, interfering with elections is "kindergarten", compared to leaking secrets?
Am I mistaken but in theory aren't Solvenia and Isreal technically allies ?
I'm not naive to believe intelligence agencies don't target each other in many ways, but general voting interference seems quite brazzen. I would love to see an example being made out of them here.
That said, bar sanctions, Isreali 'private' companies like this seem to have carte blanch on whatever they want to do. No sanctions, no fines, not even investigations will happen I fear.
How are they technically allies? Israel is not in eu or nato.
If you mean broadly, western-minded, yes but slovenia expressed some uncomfortable positions for israel lately
> yes but slovenia expressed some uncomfortable positions for Israel lately
hasn't everyone though ? Does that mean Isreal is in the clear to interfere ?
> Israel is not in eu or nato. No of course not, but there is an alignment technically, I guess the western minded.
Ireland is not a NATO member but there would be some backlash from hearing Isreal was interfearing in elections.
No, most of the EU has not condemned the atrocities in Gaza. Slovenia did, it recognized Palestine and banned weapon sales
> but general voting interference seems quite brazzen.
It's also not a new tactic. During his '68 presidential campaign against Lyndon Johnson, Nixon convinced the South Vietnamese to not engage in peace talks with the Communists to weaken Johnson's campaign. The war went on for 7 more years and killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and Vietnamese.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/yes-nixon-sc...
When it comes to IL most of the EU's countries leadership strategy comes down to getting willingly fucked and getting their population fucked for literally no benefit, just so that elites will not be temporarily called "anti-semitic".
It's nuts. Israel's idea of being an ally is fucking all their allies over, with useless war they can't win but that will erase and reverse within a few weeks all benefit countries like mine (Czechia) ever derived from a bilateral trade with them, just based on increased energy prices alone. (Compared to Slovenia, it's well deserved here, though. Czechs should suffer, to learn.)
This little stuff, like meddling in elections, is nothing, compared to big effects of IL state policy.
Israel doesn't have allies aside from US, they nurture a herd of masochist sycophant states.
Same Slovenia which Prime Minister of Slovakia Robert Fico was shot and critically injured in 2024 after, certainly not related, his government's opposition to military assistance to Ukraine and of hypocritical face of the EU inaction against Israel "treatment" of Palestinians.
Nope, not the same Slovenia. That Slovenia was actually Slovakia.
I stand corrected thanks and sorry
Crafted by Rajat
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